Originally by: SexxxSlave

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Almost 3 months have passed since the infamous monoclegate, CCP. And just about the same amount of time has elapsed since the :emergency: summit. A summit of which you said we would have meeting minutes for.

2.5 months for some meeting minutes is awful long, especially considering that you said these minutes were of utmost importance and we would have them "soon". Get your act together, and cobble these minutes together already. Stop passing them back and forth to the CSM for "approval" and "sugar coating"...

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Originally by: Jason1138

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^ its not *****y at all, given that Hilmar said its CCP policy to ignore everything paying customers say, and only respond to what they do

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Having the perspective of having done this for a decade, I can tell you that this is one of the moments where we look at what our players do and less of what they say. We went out with a decisive strategy... and we will stay the course and not flip flop around or knee jerk react to the predictable.... Stay the course, we have done this many times before.

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Originally by: Aus Man Industries

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by the time they come out will they be as relevant?
Oh hey look CSM was strong aposed to gold ammo...to bad there has been a devblog on that, or how about in the minutes they talk about the upcoming patch..that we already have the notes for?

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Originally by: Lady Zarrina

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Someone higher up, who needed a new boat, read about this F2P concept and said hey we can do this.... But lets make them pay also.

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Originally by: Tarkin Hamir

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deliberately trying to hide something.

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Originally by: Resivan

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When the player representatives at that meeting are openly posting in channels outside your control

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Originally by: SexxxSlave

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Originally by: Sullen Skoung

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Originally by: Resivan

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When the player representatives at that meeting are openly posting in channels outside your control

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link that

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twitter, failheap, and facebook bro...theyre all posting on non-eve/non-CCP regulated sites about how the meeting minutes have been a point of contention for AT LEAST a month now.

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Gonna address these two together. Right now, the issue that *all* of the CSM have with the minutes is that CCP made edits that we don't feel reflect what actually happened at the summit. I'm not sure who you would blame for that, basically it is both of us holding up the minutes release at this point.

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Originally by: Cipher Jones

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Originally by: Sullen Skoung

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Edited by: Sullen Skoung on 30/08/2011 14:40:48

Originally by: Aus Man Industries

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by the time they come out will they be as relevant?
Oh hey look CSM was strong aposed to gold ammo...to bad there has been a devblog on that, or how about in the minutes they talk about the upcoming patch..that we already have the notes for?

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If the CSM were strongly opposed to anything expect it to get NDAed

I agree Buck CSM is a sad joke. a PR scam they cam throw up when they need it and ignore it when they dont.

As a silly aside: anyone remember when the CSM was formed and what impossible task it was developed for?

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I don't remember what it was developed for but I certainly know what it was developed as a result of.

CCP, I can stick up for your game because it is still fun to play to this day. However, your actions, or lack thereof, really make it a difficult chore. You guys need to quit saying you are going to do **** that you cant do in the time-frame you give.

2.5 months for some minutes is bull**** in anybodies book.

When you said you wanted to have better communications you mgiht as well have said "We don't plan on gold ammo and if you want to know anything deeper than that GTFO."

Because that's exactly what you gave us.

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Originally by: Dusty Warrior

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Why even have a CSM? They've made it abundantly clear where they stand on the remainder of 300k players. I'll ask again as I've asked in numerous other posts... if the CSM only represents less than 3% at best then why is CCP wasting money that can be spent on more important things that will benefit us all, not just the few 0.0 carebears.

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Originally by: Officer Spawn

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Maybe another emergency summit should be arranged to discuss the minutes of the last one.

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Originally by: Roime

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let's all ragequit because of something 3 months old

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Originally by: Uleai

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Originally by: Two step

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And that is why our accounts are monitored by Internal Affairs, just like the accounts of CCP employees. A CSM member did try exactly what you are describing in the past, and earned himself a temporary ban from EVE and got kicked off the CSM (go look up Larkonis Tressler).

So no, we cannot use the knowledge we get from CCP to make billions on the markets.

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As we all know, it is absolutely impossible to use out of game communication methods to give insider info to other players. It is unthinkable that such a thing would occur. It is also beyond belief that, in a game built on the concept of knowledge is power, no one would ever even attempt it.

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Originally by: Bustin Jieber

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Originally by: Cipher Jones

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Originally by: Goddess Ishtar

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Originally by: Cipher Jones

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2 perfect examples;
(The possibility of)
1. Ice being removed from hisec.
2. ABC being removed from Wspace.

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Both of these are good ideas and I'm glad we have a CSM that realizes it.

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Both help botters and RMT'ers

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No they don't.

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Originally by: Cipher Jones

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Originally by: Two step

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Originally by: Cipher Jones

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We who? If you're a CSM and not posting on your main, GTFO. You completely prove my point by doing so. I didn't say you did, I said you could.

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I am a CSM, and I am posting on my main. http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=2293

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You are a CSM alternate delegate.

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Perhaps you might try paying a little attention?

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Originally by: Cipher Jones

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CCP got caught cheating; then formed the CSM.
At least one CSM has been caught cheating.

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Originally by: Two step

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Originally by: Ellan Thrace

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The meeting was ajorned on the last day while CCP and the CSM enjoyed playing with puppies and kittens in the lobby of the main CCP offices.

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Not true, there were also pony rides. I was there...

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Originally by: Major Stallion

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Originally by: Sullen Skoung

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nice to know you take this seriously lol

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in fairness, even if Two Step WASNT taking this seriously, would you really blame him? I mean CCP isnt taking CSM seriously, so why should any of them take it seriously?

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Originally by: Esan Vartesa

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This type of thing happens a lot when the minutes of a contentious meeting are vetted by both sides before being released.

Do you know what usually happens when it drags on for too long?

Someone leaks the originals.

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Originally by: Hamatitio

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So um, did anyone else notice the following:

Originally by: Seleene's Sandbox

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As I mentioned previously, while I was unable to physically attend the emergency summit, I was on Skype for most of the sessions (got up at 4am one morning, ugh) and then watched the video recordings of the whole affair once they were available

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So the video recordings of the entire meeting are available. There is nothing to edit out, no tone to set. The video will display the tone as accurately as if we were standing next to you in the meeting.

Post the videos.

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Originally by: Sidus Isaacs

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Originally by: Stitcher

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Edited by: Stitcher on 30/08/2011 12:20:01

Originally by: CCP Xhagen

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Originally by: Harlot Hohannson

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i watch what you do, not what you say. so far i see nothing.

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Fair enough.

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See, and right here is proof that the devs have way better PR skills than I ever would, beause my response to that would have been to call Harlot out on how incredibly b*tchy that statement was. Guess if I worked for CCP they'd have to forbid me from going anywhere near the forums.

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Most of the devs are alright guys, its the top brass at CCP that is doing all the massing up.

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Originally by: Generous Benefactor

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This whole topic is a laughable disgrace. Over 3 months to publish a set of meeting minutes because the company continually wants to edit the tone? This just shows how utterly ****ing incompetent they are at managing communications and responding to the challenge to be more transparent with their customers.

The irony is they've done the complete opposite of what they needed to do to restore faith with their customers.

Whatever CCP elects to publish, it's too late, the damage is done all over again and the cycle of fail repeats itself. If I were an investor I'd be very worried.

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Originally by: Flamespar

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Edited by: Flamespar on 02/09/2011 06:19:23

Originally by: Generous Benefactor

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well no, as it really seems, the CSM want to edit the minutes so CCP is held responsible for their actions and CCP are basically saying "yeah **** that"

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Yes, both CCP and CSM are holding up the release of these minutes. Blame both parties for being unable to get their sh*t together if you need to blame anyone.

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Originally by: Flamespar

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Learn to assume.

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Originally by: Sidus Isaacs

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Originally by: Sullen Skoung

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There is bound to be a douche bag everywhere. Judging the rest of the devs on the actions of 1 man is simple minded though.

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Originally by: Enkidu Uruksen

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Originally by: Sullen Skoung

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Originally by: Sidus Isaacs

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Originally by: Sullen Skoung

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There is bound to be a douche bag everywhere. Judging the rest of the devs on the actions of 1 man is simple minded though.

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someone wanna translate this? I get that he's calling me a douche bag... the rest not so clear

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That bit is not about you. He's saying t20 was a douche bag, there are bound to be douche bags everywhere, and that not all the devs are nasty cheaters like t20 was at that time. If you said the behavior of t20 was proof that all devs are evil, then he's calling you simple minded.

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Originally by: Mag's

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Originally by: Thornat

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The CSM or someone at CCP should just leak the minutes and let **** hit the fan. In all honesty the more CCP is humbled the better it will be for the game in the long run. Right now CCP believe themselves to be these super successful, untouchable entity that has the best sandbox game on the market leaving them in a position of infinite clout which they can use anyway they see fit. They need to have the rug pulled from under them and brought down to earth so perhaps they might realize that their success is firmly in the palms of the players and we decide wether or not they have a future.

Every day there are fewer and fewer people logging into Eve and every day more and more long time friends are playing less and less, some leaving outright. Its a sad state of affairs and the whole thing is just one big ****ing contest between the community and CCP, a contest which will result in everyone loosing simultanously. Their is no victory for the community if CCP and Eve fail as both a company and as a game, and certainly their is no victory if CCP gets their way and the community abandons them.

The failure of CCP management right now is so vivid and outragous I'm really suprised that heads aren't rolling. This situation needs to be resolved definitively, CCP needs to re-affirm their commitment to the game, re-organize their plans and start thinking like players not businessmen. If they do that, they might just make all that money they are hoping on making, but as long as they continue to **** of the community and people continue to leave the game nothing they do or say matters. They have to cataroize this bleeding wound and you start by publicy apologizing, showing some humility and making a new commitment to do better, following that up by sticking to the commitment.

CCP managers need to get their **** together fast before this whole thing goes to a point beyond saving.

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This. But they won't change, because certain types at the top believe they are so right.

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Having the perspective of having done this for a decade, I can tell you that this is one of the moments where we look at what our players do and less of what they say

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